Real stories about dating and relationships in New York City. Truth is more interesting than fiction.

Mice and Men (and players, too)

I was really suprised by the comments from my last post.  From what I gather, the general consensus (here, not what I was getting from DM on Twitter and from friends) is that are fragile creatures who cannot be rushed.  They are easily intimidated and when you try to speak with them once a month (for clarity, once at the end of 1 month of dating and once at the end of the 2nd month) on the status of your relationship (and we are speaking of a man with whom I am having regular sexual relations with, btw) that this will chase him away because that is just more than the average guy can handle.  In fact, wanting to know about the status of one’s relationship because you are feeling restless, not getting what you need from said relationship and thinking you might want to move on soon if it’s not going to go anywhere makes a woman officially “needy”.

This may all very well be true.  If so, then I want absolutely nothing to do with these “average” men.  They seem like timid little mice to me.  Indecisive, spineless wusses.  No thanks.  I’d rather be single.

And even as I write this I am reminded of a conversation I had with one of my exes, years ago.  He and I were attempting to do the exes who turn into FWB thing (the sex was so great and so it was worth a shot) but couldn’t because he was just essentially an asshole.  We had dated for about 6 or 7 months and it started out exactly the way things did with me and Mr. Potential.  Except I didn’t do the hide my profile thing and I didn’t speak with him about the status of our relationship, until we’d been dating for about 6 or 7 months.  And then I spoke up and said the equavalent of “so, where are we”. It turns out that we were nowhere.  That he had no intention of ever having it turn into anything.  He was just having fun, enjoying the great, regular sex.  If I had asked earlier I would have known earlier and thus ended it earlier and moved on earlier (yeah, the sex was great but I wanted more and he was never going to give it to me).

Anyway, our conversation: He said that he wasn’t really interested in having a girlfriend (this was months after we ended things) because there were just so many wonderful women to meet and date in NYC.  He didn’t want to limit himself.  Why have a serious girlfriend when he could go out with a different amazing woman every week?

So when I spoke with Mr. Potential on the phone this morning and he said that he still wasn’t sure about things and was really kind of wishy washy about it I was simultaneous turned off by his indecisiveness and sure he was just a lying player.  Either way, he loses.  Because I don’t want a ring or anything “real” from him.  I just want both of us to get more invested, more emotionally invested in this relationship.  Right now it’s fun and fine but kind of unfulfilling for me.  And speaking of unfulfilling, we only see each other 1 or 2 times a week and I need more sex than that.  I’m a minimum 3x a week gal.  But we can’t see each other that often if he’s still waffling.

So I am officially re opening my search.  He can still be a contender but he’s going to have some competition soon. I have heard from several guys that maybe this will get him to take action, for fear of losing me.  That would be so lame.  I hate shit like that.  I hate games.  I hate being manipulated and I don’t want to try to manipulate him.  I just feel like it’s time to do something, because the status quo is not good enough for me and he sure is hell isn’t going to do anything to change it.

And now, for some completely bizarro news.  One of my exes has kind of dropped back onto the scene in a maybe more than friends way.  I am so not sure if that’s a good idea.  But it’s nice to be wanted by someone…


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20 to “Mice and Men (and players, too)”


  1. bobbyjensen says:

    “If I had asked earlier I would have known earlier and thus ended it earlier and moved on earlier ”

    Yep, this is why I usually recommend communication (my favorite word). Like I said, about 90% are players. The good news is that you asked him what you wanted to know.

  2. derek7272 says:

    I was one of the people who used the word “needy,” but I certainly don’t think the average guy is wussy, fragile or easily intimidated. And I think it’s possible to have a conversation about where a relationship is going without being all needy about it. (Eg., what Hypatia suggested). But that you couldn’t wait a couple days (maybe after NYE if you didn’t want to spoil NYE with heavy stuff) to have this conversation with him in person does sound a little needy to me. Maybe I am wrong, tho.

    Also, I don’t see how you think he’s lying to you … how hasn’t he been honest?

  3. That Lawyer Dude says:

    Look if there is any hard and fast rule in dating, it is that there are no hard and fast rules. That said, if a woman is dating a gentleman, and he knows she is investing in him, then he has an obligation to move that forward in either words or deeds. If he cannot make a decision about someone he is sleeping with 2x per week, knowing that person is “putting her eggs into his basket” then how much time does the selfish bastard need.

    In fact, Mr. P is trying to have his cake and eat it too. SINgle Girl is a person. Not a commodity. He is not being asked to give her a ring. He is being asked if he is interested in going steady. How many eligable women will he miss seeing if he decides to commit? How many other women are filling his dance card that are equal to or better. If the answer is one or more other, than be a man, and let her know that he is not going to make the committment.

    As for his coming around when she turns up busy, well if that is what it takes he is a bigger idiot than is being played out here.

    I assume that SINgle girl is clear about her intentions, He has an obligation not to lead her on. His behavior is less than a mature man should be showing. Wanna be a FWB, then say so and see what her answer is. To take it because it is there if you just don’t say anything is not even mouse like. It is Rat like.

    As I said to you on Twitter SINgle Girl… NEXT!!

  4. bellaressa says:

    As I said in the last post, you deserve better. I do not understand the need to belittle women to say they are needy because they want clarification. If you were woman enough to say what you needed and what you wanted then he needs to be man enough to say I want this or don’t want this. It’s okay if he didn’t want to be with you but he should be honest about either wanting to just f*ck you 2xs a week or just want to take this further. I hate games and I believe he wanted to play games especially since you are putting your eggs in one basket. Another things also, you want to be safe, you want to know if your the only one he is screwing because you want to make sure he is not screwing half of NY even though he may – he can be honest whether or not he is.

  5. kingjac says:

    Two words commit or quit its how it has to be! Your obviously not looking for any thing else other than the soulmate! The person that wants to be with you and you with him! It doesnt mean marriage or a ring it means you and him! Keep looking its out there.

  6. Hypatia says:

    I agree and disagree with “That lawyerdude”– I don’t think he was leading you on, I think he was clear about not wanting to commit (hence the active profile), but still liking you. At the same time, I say “Next” too. It’s been long enough for him to decide, and frankly it’s not about whether or not it works for HIM, it’s about whether or not it works for YOU– and evidently it’s not working for you. This doesn’t make one of you good and one of you bad, you’re just at different spots.

    I also certainly wasn’t saying that men are fragile creatures who can’t be rushed– just that in THIS particular circumstance, with THIS particular guy, he seems undecided, and if you were to push him, he might back away. If you’re fine with that, and want to go ahead, then by all means, do so. Frankly, I’d be wanting to have “The conversation” too– but knowing that the outcome probably wouldn’t be the outcome I would want….so it would simply depend which I wanted more? Resolution of some sort? Or holding out the hope that it could work out? (They’re not necessarily mutually exclusive, but in this instance, with this guy, it seems like it might be.)

    Good luck. And I think you made the right choice to put yourself back out there.

  7. derek7272 says:

    Bellaressa, read what I was saying again. It’s perfectly fair to have a conversation about where things are going … but you just don’t want to come across as needy when you do it. It’s all in the approach, y’know?And hey, I’ve been that needy guy before and turned off women by coming on too strong. It’s actually a gender-neutral thing.
    And there’s no need to belittle guys just because they don’t want the same thing as you do!

  8. bellaressa says:

    derek7272, I wasn’t really referring to your post. I was not belittling men. I was saying basically we are all adults and that is the way we should behave. The last post that SG most of the comments were basically calling her needy and saying she was coming on too strong. The comments were jumping on her without even giving her time to clarify. That is all I was saying, the games that some people play are tiring and it’s wrong to play games when someone has laid out their feelings and you play along but have no intentions of reciprocating.

  9. cjw666 says:

    What’s THAT about? “Men are fragile creatures…”? All anyone said is that, LIKE YOU, he’s an individual and, if he doesn’t want to be rushed then he clearly WON’T!

    YOUR agenda is not the most important one on the planet to anyone except you and the same applies to him and every one of us.

    Just because he doesn’t feel that excited about you doesn’t make him a player either – it just makes him not sure about you! Equally, because someone is “not that into you” tells you only that fact about them.

    Maybe it’s my reading, or your writing, but “needy” sounds like a perfect description of the tone, if nothing else. Sorry, but that’s how it all comes across to me.

    -derek 7272: Exactly!

  10. Teifion says:

    I reckon that you will push him into action one way or another, the problem is that I’d expect it to bias him into leaving. I hope it works out.

  11. CJCrimgirl says:

    Here we go! a)I think you arre making this guy pay for the actions of a past boyfriend. This guy is his own man, not your ex. You can’t say because you ex acted one way that this guy will.

    b)You have to think of your behavior from his perspective. I’m assuming y’all have been dating a few months. He meets you off some dating website, y’all click in person, and begin a “dating relationship.” Seems to be liking you, brings you stuff, good physical relationship, etc.

    All of a sudden you are checking his profile online, calling him out on the fact it’s not hidden, and whatever else. I’m assuming you’ve had this relationship talk more than once. STOP!

    I mean this dude has shown he likes you. I’ll be honest though, if I was this guy and you were doing this to me, I would either think you were needy or had some other issues. This guy is not your ex. I also question you not waiting until he got home. I think it could have waited until he returned from the holidays. This guy could be like why is this person ruining my trip by a telephone call like this? If I were him and someone did that to me, I’d be real hesistant to give an answer. That was not the correct time to broach that subject.

    And if he’s not sure, then tell him that is fine and move on. Stop having sexual relations with him too. I do though, question, why you didn’t wait until after he got home. You seem to be more focused on your own needs than on him though.

    I’m not one to talk in relationships. I stayed with the same guy off and on for like eight years. I do know though that you have to give and not deal in absolutes. In this situation you are doing the “Either we are together exclusively NOW or not.” It’s not like this guy has told you he’s going to do date someone else.

    If I sound harsh I apologize. I had a wake up call recently about this myself. I dealt in absolutes and I’m the one who refused to commit. I’m glad someone called me out on my behavior. I still have a chance to improve. I just saw a lot of my own behavior in yours.

    I think you’ve set up a self-fulfilling prophecy. You set these lofty goals and if a guy isn’t quick in reaching them they are discarded. I think it helps to ease the blow if it doesn’t work out.

    You can take what I say with a grain of salt. I’m a decade younger than you :) but I do deal in a field with a lot of human behavior. I’ve learned to look for stuff like this.

    And the sex thing. You say he’s “waffling” so no more sex. Is that punishment? I don’t understand. Just go with stuff. And sex shouldn’t be the determining factor in anything (unless there is NO physical attraction). I mean I enjoy sex but I don’t use that as a determining factor in anything. Hell I’ve had sex over 10 times in one day. I don’t, however, use that as a threshold to determine whether or not I stay with someone. He also might not be willing to emotionally invest because he doesn’t think you want to see him.

    In closing I think you should look at how your acting. Maybe that’s the reason the guy isn’t so quick to commitment.

  12. Hammer86 says:

    I don’t think you have to worry about him being a player. He wouldn’t have waited 5 weeks to make a move on you/let you make a move on him if he was.

    I’ve been telling you that this guy is an indecisive wuss from the get-go (and that it would frustrate you), and I think that forcing his hand is the thing to do, although the fact remains that he is a wuss at his core and so you’ll never be satisfied. It’s not like he’s one day going to grow a pair of testicles once he decides that he wants to be in a relationship with you.

    Oh and CJCrimgirl doesn’t know what she’s talking about. I understand where she’s coming from, but this has been dragging on for a while with you and I don’t think that you are out of line to want him to commit. Also, using sex as a weapon a recipe for an unhappy behaviorist relationship

  13. melissa2510 says:

    You go SINgleGIRL! And while I was initially an advocate for waiting till after NYE, it probably is better to know now so you can go out and have fun (-:

  14. derek7272 says:

    bellaressa, My belittling men comment was really more directed at the whole men are “timid mice … indecisive, spineless wusses” thing…

  15. bellaressa says:

    derek7272, thanks for the clarification. :)

  16. PokerVixen says:

    As I’ve been following along with this relationship, I was a little worried that you may be pushing him too hard and it would be a little daunting. Please don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with having high standards or self respect but you have to balance it and make sure you aren’t asking a guy to make up for the mistakes of another (or at least not make the same ones). I’m in a city of odds and risks, bets and losses. I see risk versus reward everywhere, including in relationships.

    However, it sounds to me like you were reasonable in your discussion of this. You’re not looking for a ring but you are looking for a level of effort to explore what the “potential” is. His not knowing because he’s nervous or scared or unsure… that’s indeed wussy. Everyone has those doubts. You’re still having those doubts. Still, you’re willing to dedicate your energy and focus on what’s good instead of focusing on what *may* be passing you buy. You’re willing to take a risk, take some time to focus some energy and really explore and he is wanting to fold the hand yet still see if he could win at the end. If he’s not willing to risk anything he’ll never reap the rewards of the win.

    I’ve always felt in any relationship, success is contingent on the choices. You can choose to grow together or you’ll choose to grow apart. We all evolve and change. Its very much a choice. Its scary but can be incredibly rewarding. There’s great satisfaction in someone willing to take the risk and make the effort with you, even if it doesn’t work in the long run. At least they took that scary daunting risk with you though, because you’re worth it.

    And you my dear are worth it. Do what will assure you and bring you satisfaction. GL in your hunt.

  17. NI Toys says:

    Hi Single… Time and time again i tried to provide you with the insights of a man… What you stated about him waffling is exactly what I was trying to tell you … Listen, now that you are allowing yourself to met other people you should take your time and just let it happen… Pushing the issue that you want a relationship is only going to point you in the wrong direction…. If its sex that you have to have 3x a week then get yourself a boy toy to pleasure you… Just make sure you have safe sex… DONT TRUST ANYONE…. Lets talk.. you know how to contact me… Hope you had a great christmas… Smooches.. NaughtyInterludeToys.com

  18. recklessstudio says:

    Well, we talk all the time on Twitter so most of my comments are there!

    But I am glad that you are taking the steps to move ahead. There is a difference between moving on and moving ahead, and I think that you are moving ahead here. He’s still around but you aren’t really waiting for him to figure things out.

    There are people out there that can match the pace your are looking for and you are smart enough to know that settling for something isn’t acceptable.

    As for the ex…I’m not too sure about that. But did you REALLY need HIM to make you feel desired? You just opened back your dating profile. That’s almost like opening the floodgates.

  19. Deline says:

    Argh!!

    This is why I always say right from the beginning… “I’m kinda bad!” All the women I’m dating know I see other women. That’s just the way it is right now and for the foreseeable future.

    If I sense someone is getting a little more “vested” with me… I do a sit down and basically say I enjoy their company but I’m not going to be -that guy- that’s going to do the commitments, a the relationships and all that.

    Why don’t guys just do this more? Because your “average guy” is a wuss, and doesn’t really even know HOW to be a fuckin’ player to begin with. It would save a whole lot of hurt/drama down the line if guys would just state their boundaries, take or leave it, no judging.

    D

  20. demure20 says:

    Knowing sooner, the better is how I see it.